Forum:ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
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We really need better articles in this wiki haus.
Yes, I just said it. At this rate, Illogicopedia is going rather downhill; due to my tendency to refer to things in a neat and orderly basis, I will sum up my arguements in a point-by-point basis.
Articles are good. Originally, articles were the mainstay of the place. Now, everything has become rather... repetitive. All articles are similiar in flavor. It's like having french vanilla coffee every day for a week, y'know? Kind of boring. For example, compare A sinister ritual and Blehahah, or various other articles -- although the two examples are both by the same author, this theme of similiarity is NOT confined, and everything in Illogicopedia tends to degrade to an incoherent mishmash of words and concepts.
Now, I'll stop being such an awful pessimist and get to the solutions to this problem; either improve our existing articles, or enforce stricter quality standards. Both will very well be met with wailing and gnashing of teeth. Even now, certain vanity slips by due to being a 'passable' article, or things deserving of a deletion on any level are untouched. I'm not asking for Uncyclopedian-style genocide; I'm asking for something decent. As Testicles put it on IRC, it should be literary quality random humor. It's not incomprehensible babbling. We've just run our mouths off with that.
Community is currently festering; everyone ignores the efforts in bringing us together for the most part. I aim to stop that; some examples are turning the Illogic Book into a mesh of community-driven storylining, Illogimail becoming prominent, or just getting a good snicker from other ideas.
I'm just not sure where we're headed. All we know is, I want it fixed, and if it isn't, well.. I dunno what to say! --Sir Asema Politics Complaint Inbox or Outbox
- I Totally agree, articles should definately have a stricter quality guidance, you can delete all my old articles that suck if you want, but something needs to be done. The community projects, forum and irc are what should make up the main body of his site! -- 16:20, 19 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- For all those not aware of the situation. This has been in discussion with admins for a long time, we feel, something from ?pedia has gone missing in the last few months that used to be there in the old days. it had an air about it of togetherness, and articles werent the most important thing, this is why we are trying to bring back the old days yore, because we dont like the direction it looks like we are going--Silent PenguinLeave Me Alone 16:28, 19 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- I am against stringent article quality regulations. If we implement them we are no better than Uncyclopedia and their humour policing. -- Hindleyak Converse • ?blog • Click here! 20:12, 19 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- im not suggesting stringent all the time, just to prune back the good and bad stuff, cus we have too many articles which are repeats of other ones, and such-like, i wasnt suggesting cutting articles that are of good or bad content, just those ones that are repetitive and not interesting to read, cus we have gone a bit lax on our original. nothing like forest fire. But the article base of late has taken two turns, one is the very good ones, which get featured, and one is the really trash ones. there doesnt seem to me much inbetween.--Silent PenguinLeave Me Alone 20:41, 19 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- I don't like the idea of purging, either. Most mediocre articles have a spark of unique nonsense, and if we remove them, though content would be better on average, far less interesting material would remain in total. However, a fair share of articles have material that might be expanded on and/or combined with some artistic effort, producing something better. Maybe some event could be done from time to time aiming for the recycling of mediocre articles, where you make better ones by merging them with proper nonsense glue (Illogic Noseglue Award? :P) to make them "flow" as a single piece? Could result in a fair amount of new feature and epic worthy articles and raise the overall quality without destroying content. --The Divine Fluffalizer 03:10, 20 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- Having thought a bit more about it, I think merging should simply be encouraged as a general editing practice. The controversial thing content improvement is mostly about the imposing of arbitrary standards. Rather than making it an administrative task or otherwise trying to wage a battle against "less valued" content, as at Uncyc, we could simply condone large-scale cross-page editing in general as an accepted editing activity, just as writing pages in the first place.
- If we lessen restriction on editing, rather than increasing it on content, simply letting Illogicopedia go nuts, I'm sure things will change for the better, as there is a general interest in improving things. --The Divine Fluffalizer 06:37, 22 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- Looking at your comments, i think that your idea of purging the wiki with a positive spin is much better than simply hacking away the rubbish articles, have a trash-fest maybe? then the wiki has plenty of stuff to get on with, then anything left over from the last trashfest when we get to the new one can be considered as lost art? and deleted. does that sound better. so rather than banishing the content, we give it a second chance, becuase the trashness stuff works, just us admins are too soft to use it much.--Silent PenguinLeave Me Alone 15:38, 22 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- Sounds better, but I don't think deletion is necessarily necessary where improvement fails. The problem is one of quantity, that there is too much mediocre and similar content, drowning out the most interesting. So as long as enough of it is improved, the problem is basically solved. And what can't be improved now might be at a later time, or as the content at large changes, become more unique, increasing its value. --The Divine Fluffalizer 04:25, 23 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- I see where you're coming from, if we did it that way then we could improve the quality of the whole wiki 'and keep our inclusionist policy, which is win win. I think like an article improvement week, once every two/three months wouldn't go amiss. -- 08:25, 23 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- hmm, i think maybe we should do it for longer less often, because otherwise it waters down its effect, maybe two weeks every three months, but hell one week every two isnt much different.--Silent PenguinLeave Me Alone 14:38, 23 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- I see where you're coming from, if we did it that way then we could improve the quality of the whole wiki 'and keep our inclusionist policy, which is win win. I think like an article improvement week, once every two/three months wouldn't go amiss. -- 08:25, 23 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- Sounds better, but I don't think deletion is necessarily necessary where improvement fails. The problem is one of quantity, that there is too much mediocre and similar content, drowning out the most interesting. So as long as enough of it is improved, the problem is basically solved. And what can't be improved now might be at a later time, or as the content at large changes, become more unique, increasing its value. --The Divine Fluffalizer 04:25, 23 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- Looking at your comments, i think that your idea of purging the wiki with a positive spin is much better than simply hacking away the rubbish articles, have a trash-fest maybe? then the wiki has plenty of stuff to get on with, then anything left over from the last trashfest when we get to the new one can be considered as lost art? and deleted. does that sound better. so rather than banishing the content, we give it a second chance, becuase the trashness stuff works, just us admins are too soft to use it much.--Silent PenguinLeave Me Alone 15:38, 22 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
What about me? does this mean i will be dead if you kill my articles??? THE and I will be nothing without our trademarks!!! Also relating to silent penguins trash fest.... Do you know that i have been saving a ton of articles in trash. I will soon try and come to the rescue. Aha, I like it.... tell me when the trash fest occurs.....--
|Fonchezzz| Quacking|
15:23, 23 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
Oh ya and.... we need to do something about this Steve Jorgensonsnesnes likes kate Mclaugh or whatever.... this guy has potential to be a major vantity creator similar to the ryan series. We should probably stop it before it gets too out of hand. This is also what you guys are talking about.sucky articles must die....--|Fonchezzz| Quacking| 15:32, 23 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
my 2 cents[edit source]
- We must allow for people to be able to just bang on their keyboards and post whatever they want without worrying that a strict article-deleting banshee is going to whiz through whatever they wrote. If we can't do that then I think we will have failed somehow in ways I can't really explain in words right now probably due to having eaten too much Holidaze food and gotten too little sleep in the past 48 hours.
- Our site should generally be interesting to look at and possibly even read. That means that if a bunch of random characters or images don't directly contradict the rules and are interesting to look at, they should stay put. That also means that things that do contradict the rules or which are just total crap that no one, ever, will ever want to look at or possibly even read should be deleted. I really think people who think illogicopedia is getting old should quit reading it and do some writing instead. :) but i do see that there might be something needed. The idea for merging articles sounded good to me. I just think people should be really, really careful with the delete tab. When writing, people shouldn't have to think, "Will they delete this?" They should just write - let whatever's on their minds flow out onto the page. That's what I often use Illogicopedia for, before I get down to some serious actual writing where things like spelling and grammar become important. --Nerd42eMailTalkUnMetaWPediah2g2 16:19, 26 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- on second thought, there are some exceptions to what I just said; I mean, some people have really dirty minds, filled with hatred and profanity and I don't want a site that I helped start to help spread that kind of junk, which is why the rules were written the way they were. --Nerd42eMailTalkUnMetaWPediah2g2 16:26, 26 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- problem with gettin people to write alot is, people are writing alot, the articles that are getting written are never improved though, which is why the article improvement drive was created, we are a wiki after all, and half of our users seem to have thrown the tight nit community in the bin, people need to get together, before it was never about the articles, remember, in improving the articles, we aren't losing the article, just improving, that is the model of any wiki, community improvement, and i dont think we should just throw that model in the bin.--Silent PenguinLeave Me Alone 16:50, 26 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- Hey, man, nobody's saying to throw the community in the trash. When I say "write" I mean edit just as much as i mean start new articles. Everything should be constantly changing, that's why it's a called a wiki. You're saying that people are being protective of particular versions of articles? man, they should get a life and possibly also their own EditThis site. --Nerd42eMailTalkUnMetaWPediah2g2 16:58, 26 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- yeah, some people hate each other, i remember when any hate people had with each other was playful, nobody actually hated each other, they just pretended, and when irc was filled with 6-8 people a night, its picked up lately, but for months there was only me asema and the odd lurker. the forum is dead to most people, they dont use it like they should just to talk about random stuff, i don't think people realise that the off tropic forum is ment for off topic stuff. ie, whatever the hell you want to talk about, and all the silly things we had, like the random answer thread, they have all gone dead, people are concentrating on writing as much as possible, people need to make use of the community infrastructure we had, i cant understand why it used to get used all the time and now its all been abandoned.--Silent PenguinLeave Me Alone 17:29, 26 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- Nerd42 seems happy to allow an article improvement week, so how bout we start that soon?--Silent PenguinLeave Me Alone 22:33, 26 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- Sounds good, but lets give the users some notice about it, like a week of posting stuff about it around the site etc, so more people do join in when it does go on. I'll even take a day out for this improvement drive,
- I suggest we do it on the 8th of jan, or a week either side so from the 1st to the 14th, or something, cus that is our birthday, the first day of the site being on a wiki that wasnt some crappy scratchpad.--Silent PenguinLeave Me Alone 13:52, 27 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- Sounds good, but lets give the users some notice about it, like a week of posting stuff about it around the site etc, so more people do join in when it does go on. I'll even take a day out for this improvement drive,
- Nerd42 seems happy to allow an article improvement week, so how bout we start that soon?--Silent PenguinLeave Me Alone 22:33, 26 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- yeah, some people hate each other, i remember when any hate people had with each other was playful, nobody actually hated each other, they just pretended, and when irc was filled with 6-8 people a night, its picked up lately, but for months there was only me asema and the odd lurker. the forum is dead to most people, they dont use it like they should just to talk about random stuff, i don't think people realise that the off tropic forum is ment for off topic stuff. ie, whatever the hell you want to talk about, and all the silly things we had, like the random answer thread, they have all gone dead, people are concentrating on writing as much as possible, people need to make use of the community infrastructure we had, i cant understand why it used to get used all the time and now its all been abandoned.--Silent PenguinLeave Me Alone 17:29, 26 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- Hey, man, nobody's saying to throw the community in the trash. When I say "write" I mean edit just as much as i mean start new articles. Everything should be constantly changing, that's why it's a called a wiki. You're saying that people are being protective of particular versions of articles? man, they should get a life and possibly also their own EditThis site. --Nerd42eMailTalkUnMetaWPediah2g2 16:58, 26 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- problem with gettin people to write alot is, people are writing alot, the articles that are getting written are never improved though, which is why the article improvement drive was created, we are a wiki after all, and half of our users seem to have thrown the tight nit community in the bin, people need to get together, before it was never about the articles, remember, in improving the articles, we aren't losing the article, just improving, that is the model of any wiki, community improvement, and i dont think we should just throw that model in the bin.--Silent PenguinLeave Me Alone 16:50, 26 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- I agree with what Nerd says! Don't forget that nonsense can be good quality nonsense. However I also note that some of those repetitive articles are getting, well, repetitive. I would fully support an 'article improvement' week as long as we outline some basic guidelines about it, i.e. what constitutes 'good'. -- Hindleyak Converse • ?blog • Click here! 14:53, 27 Ditzimber 2007 (UTC)
- I think i found some of the source of the problem: http://illogicopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Webtools
- that shows our google page ranks for various keywords and our hit percentage from those keywords --Silent PenguinLeave Me Alone 18:26, 12 Jeremy 2008 (UTC)
- Hm, ED? I would have liked to see more wp links to be honest... the illogicapedia typo entry made me laugh. Slightly. -- Hindleyak Converse • ?blog • Click here! 19:24, 12 Jeremy 2008 (UTC)
- Edit - some more interesting search terms: "penguin in hte firdge", "world gurnig championships" from the UK stats; "brisbane band blah blah blah plays at the elephant and wheelbarrow", "howto destroy laptop" from Australian stats; "who is the rosa shafigulina" from the Canadian stats; "olelh" from the Brazillian stats... -- Hindleyak Converse • ?blog • Click here! 19:29, 12 Jeremy 2008 (UTC)