Forum:Moving ?pedia to new servers

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There has been some talk of moving off carlb's servers to more reliable hosting. Informally, folks generally seem to support the notion, and Uncyclopedia's technical team are willing to take us on, but this is a vote for a more formal consensus as to whether the illogicopedia community wants to move. Carlb recently indicated on IRC that if we have a demonstrable consensus he would willingly hand over the database, so it's worth a try as that would make things a lot easier, but even if he doesn't (he has twice refused to hand over the database previously) it'd still probably be best for folks to have a chance to weigh in on the matter. Or at least vote in.

So shall we move to Uncyclopedia's 1.6 servers and a cat? Would keep pretty much all the data and info, take up to a few days to actually move it (no editing during that time), but things should generally be about the same but faster and less buggy and spammy after.

Score: 11 and a bit cheese puffs (with extra cheese)

• I say we move. Benefits outweigh the risks and such, especially since the benefits include more crazy writing. -— Athyria 10:14, 3 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)
• Blordsnat. Although this is only my 71st edit here and I've mostly been at Uncyclopedia for six years. But as an outsider looking in, if Illogicopedia had more reliable hosting I'd edit here every day, and I'm sure there are plenty of other internet users (including other Uncyclopedians) who would do the same. -RAHB 10:19, 3 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)
• aye ~Sir Frosty (Talk to me!) 10:22, 3 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)
• As long as we can make the transfer as smooth as possible without any information loss, I'm all for it. --Ryan ^u|t|c 10:52, 3 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)
• Neigh. May change my mind at some point (Darling, I'm so undpredictable). I had a brief email discussion with Carl about the whole spammity spam problem, in which he (encouragingly) said that there is a fix in the pipeline - something to do with the IP blacklist (which most of the bots are on) not working at the moment. It should do in the near future. I'm also going to throw in the sloppy argument that we could lose access to the Uncyclomedia image database, which has been rather handy, and I'm guessing ties would be cut with them in general.

If consensus says that we move, which it looks like it will do, I propose we don't bother moving Logimalpedie, per reasons stipulated here. --Ben ^Blade 11:30, 3 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

You raise a good point. The image database is really valuable and saves us time and space. If we can't access that anymore, maybe we need to think more before we discuss moving. And if Carl says he could fix the spambot problem, that's one big thing out of the way. The only other problem is the 404ing, which I personally haven't heard from Carl about. --Ryan ^u|t|c 13:06, 3 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

We can get the image database along with everything else, and space is not an issue. This isn't like other moves - even if carlb doesn't give us the database we needn't lose much of anything, really; Uncyclopedia already moved from Wikia keeping nearly all its data - it lost only its wikia, the <poll> results, and some stubborn users.

Unfortunately, even if carlb does fix the current spam problem, that's only one little fix in a very long line of wontfixes where he never did respond - nevermind the server outages, there are also ongoing issues with many other things as well:

• General slowness, especially when editing
• Captchas triggering for all non-admins (phantoms, for instance, definitely needn't trigger that)
• New forums and VFF entries are created with Forum:Forum: and Illogicopedia:Illogicopedia: unless caught and manually changed in the browser's url bar
• No access on our end to any modern anti-spam and countervandalism features
• No countervandalism settings such as autoconfirmed time, pagemove throttling, etc
• Gaping security holes in the wiki itself (mainly attack vectors for going after the users/readers)
• Namespaces with subpages aren't properly defined (this broke VFF and a lot of its messages until someone found a workaround, but never should have been an issue in the first place)
• Content namespaces aren't defined (total article count doesn't include illoginews, for instance, as a result)
• Inconsistent software updates, and always to unstable alpha versions, introducing new bugs every time (every two years or so?)
• Basic usability extensions aren't installed - for instance adding things to one's watchlist is still basic html when there are much more elegant ajax solutions

The list goes on. These are all relatively simple fixes, but Carlb, he's just one person, and it seems he can't deal with all of this. That's fine, but it means he's not exactly a good fit for living projects such as Illogicopedia. And Illogicopedia is still alive - barely. I'd like to see it better than barely, and that means getting it fully working first. -— Athyria 19:25, 3 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

Do you mean we be able to retain access to Uncyclomedia Commons if we moved? --Ben ^Blade 20:05, 3 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

Yes. Though we'll probably make a copy, since using it directly would result in the same slowness issues as we have currently whenever an image is used from it. But either way the implementation is easily replicable; it's just like Wikimedia Commons. -— Athyria 22:40, 3 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

“Captchas triggering for all non-admins (phantoms, for instance, definitely needn't trigger that)”

~ -— Athyria

That's just a right set for Werewolves only, and since I'm sure Carlb has upgraded MediaWiki on this server a few times before, I'm also sure he has access to the raw LocalSettings.php for Illogicopedia and can inject $wgGroupPermissions["Phantom"]["skipcaptcha"] = true; or replace $wgGroupPermissions["Werewolf"]["skipcaptcha"] = true; with $wgGroupPermissions["Autoconfirmed user"]["skipcaptcha"] = true; in it --74.102.75.48 00:00, 8 Jumbly 2013 (UTC)

• For - During my time here, I managed to be a vibrant part of the community but even then, I was a user editing under exile; I have sent my request to Illogicopedia administration to leave but for some reason the request is taking longer than expected; with that being said, I'm going to use this time to leave some last words. Time doesn't heal all wounds, I know full well what I did there and I know full well the relation to what I did here; some people may forgive and some people may hold on to that like a grudge, wouldn't blame them, especially for some newcomers/oldcomers here... I realize that I need to seek professional help and move on in order to succeed in life and ultimately, I can't be a part of this community anymore. Don't get me wrong, every one of you guys is great, it's just that I don't want to be tied down to what I consider the lowest point of my life and I can't really bring myself in the mindstate to be an Illogicopedian anymore; I don't find much of the culture on the internet appealing anymore. I do realize that the community itself needs to regrow and for that to happen there needs to be a closer connection with it's parent site and nothing that drives away contributors, which are problematic servers; if the site moved to reliable servers than it could find itself on solid ground again. However there just doesn't seem to be a place for me in the future; both for myself and the community. --TaylorKarras (talk) 20:44, 3 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

• Duh.

er, I mean 4.

or ketchup. I vote ketchup. --Nerd42 (talk) 21:10, 3 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

Just to be contrarian and cancel out Nerd's vote, I plump for Worcester Sauce. -- Hindleyak  Converse • ?blog • Click here! 22:51, 3 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

• For, probably. Carlb, please don't take this personally, but after over a year of cogitation I have come to the (not so independent) conclusion that it would be better to find a more reliable server. Around this time last year, there was a huuuge crash which came at a really bad time for the site. Activity was picking up again, but after Roberto struck Illogicopedia was locked down for the best part of 2-3 weeks. Yep, this is the reason I think Illogicopedia went so stale for so long - everybody went away and never really came back. Or at least, that's what happened with me.

Do we have confidence in the new servers? Is Roberto monitoring us as we speak, readying his local network for a mass vandalism spree? And will the above image repository creases be ironed out? Why is Spam fritter so tasty? Will I ever stop asking questions?

Plus, what is this new Uncyclopedia place? I only just found out about it about ten minutes ago. -- Hindleyak  Converse • ?blog • Click here! 21:27, 3 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

Uncyclopedia left Wikia. Mostly. That's the new url. -— Athyria 22:40, 3 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

About time eh? No doubt they will keep the old wiki open and run it in direct competition to the spiritual site. One feels this whole 'freedom of knowledge' (read: redundant site mirrors) thing is trampling all over itself now, but meh, it rakes in the cash, I suppose.

Eagerly awaiting the closure of Wikia for all time, Hindleyak  Converse • ?blog • Click here! 22:48, 3 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

• For. Anything which improves the site's speed is good in my book. -- Another n00b (talk) 14:56, 9 Aym 2013 (UTC)

• For Uncyclomedia Commons share the images...

$wgForeignFileRepos[] = array(
   'class'                   => 'ForeignAPIRepo',
   'name'                    => 'uncyc',
   'apibase'                 => 'http://commons.uncyclomedia.org/api.php',
   'fetchDescription'        => true, // Optional
   'descriptionCacheExpiry'  => 43200, // 12 hours, optional (values are seconds)
   'apiThumbCacheExpiry'     => 43200, // 12 hours, optional, but required for local thumb caching
);

Just add it somewhere in LocalSettings.php. It's very simple! --189.71.239.166 03:31, 4 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

For Things are just barely starting to work again here as far as I can tell. I used to contribute here fairly regularly until all the Roberto crashes and technical difficulties accessing the site drove me away. Now I'm trying to figure out what I missed out on and what has changed since I was here last. We need more consistent tech support to keep the servers running and get support on them ASAP when they aren't. Unfortunately, it seems this is more than just one person can provide consistently. simsilikesims (talk) 04:05, 4 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

• Comment: Well, the tide of popular opinion seems to suggest we're packing our bags, much as I predicted. Something I felt the urge to mention: We'll need to change the image licensing tags when we move to reflect that we'll be under EU copyright law rather than the Canadian schtuff (our servers will be located in Brunoy) --Ben ^Blade 07:45, 4 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

  Aye, that's a good point. May also need to update some of the fullurls, since they've been used kind of willy-nilly in the past and we should probably just pick one, but any of that should be relatively easy to fix using a bot since there's no need to cherrypick which to fix here. -— Athyria 04:36, 5 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

Guys, yes we need to move, but don't badmouth Carlb. He's been doing all this for FREE for several years and supported us when we didn't have any places else to go. Course, it is true that the past year has kind of SUCKED ... REALLY REALLY BAD. If only I'd known a year ago that a little more democracy in action would have gotten things done. POLL THE TUMBLEWEEDS! POLL THEM, I SAY! --Nerd42 (talk) 04:09, 5 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

Seconded on Carlb. He is an Illogicopedian legend and anybody dissing him shall be placed in the Illogibrig and tortured by Roberto's minions for eternity. Wait, Democracy in Action? Don't you mean Apathy in Action? :P -- Hindleyak  Converse • ?blog • Click here! 12:26, 5 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

• xn--ibd. Per TKF, it may cause some old Uncycers to come back and some old ?peers. Whut ~ Y !!!!! Feb 5 2013 21:54....... * Uncyclopedia
• Yes, move the sucker. But I'm not a major user here, at least this last year, so I would leave the decision to the main people writing here. But as long as I have a vote, aye, the vote be. Uncyclopedia's move has gone very well, and the tech support from its code freaks has been excellent. So if Athyria says this site would be better off on those servers, I'd trust that word. And can I change my name to just "Aleister" (I dropped the chains years ago, and officially have dropped them at the new Uncy site)? Oh, and hello everyone. Aleister today, tomorrow or yesterday

Would this like, permanently attach us to Uncle Pete? Like, we couldn't get separated again if that relationship ever went south? --Nerd42 (talk) 21:24, 6 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

Nope. And if anyone ever tries to go back on this... uh... stab them? I'd hope it never comes to that, but things do seem to have a history of going south, as you say. >.< -— Athyria 01:22, 7 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

I think it's really nice that they're willing to help us out --Nerd42 (talk) 05:06, 7 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

I can't speak for the Uncyclopedia community as a whole, although I think most are indifferent, a lot of the active users not having been made terribly well aware of ?pedia in recent years, but I personally would love nothing more than for Uncyc and ?pedia to be on good terms with each other, whether they're on the same server or not. I think it would be mutually beneficial to both communities for the users to be encouraged to contribute in both places, as I think both have something to offer in the bigger puzzle of comedic knowledge and potential, and that the user experience on one wiki can positively supplement their experience on the other, and vice versa. Which is a big reason why I'm in support of this change in hosting idea, because that connection will be much stronger between two websites that can regularly be accessed without issues. -RAHB 05:12, 7 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

For. *pops up from the darkness curiously* I think in the past year we've had too many problems with this server. In fact, ever since I joined there was always something wrong with the servers occasionally. But occasionally is too much and we need servers that go down only rarely. Another problem is that the only person to turn to when things get ugly is Carlb, but most of the time we are ending up talking to a brick wall because Carlb never replies or takes too long. So it's all a big thumbs up from me. Sincerely, islandmonkey - go speak 20:48, 7 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

While I agree with the gist of what you're saying, bear in mind that the guy hosts us for absolutely free. That's along with a bunch of other wikis. --Ben ^Blade 20:59, 7 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

Yes of course it is gracious of Carlb to do such a massive favour hosting us for nothing but perhaps it time to move on. This wiki has been trying to stand on one leg for too long and nothing has changed. As many other people have said - everything is starting to stagnate. Sincerely, islandmonkey - go speak 21:28, 7 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

Let me make this clear, in case someone else hasn't. Carlb has done a lot for this wiki. He gave us our independence, and even if we move on to new servers, I propose Carl be made a Saint of Illogia. --Ryan ^u|t|c 06:07, 8 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

A good call - he shall be seated on the right hand side of the Mighty Penguin and two rows in front of Francis E Dec! -- Hindleyak  Converse • ?blog • Click here! 13:32, 8 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

HELL YES! Down with Roberto and his evil army of server problems! ~[ths] Keeper of the Bloodwine 00:09, 03/24/2013

"I say there, Monstrosity! Do you know the times?"

[1] When would this change of servers happen? --Nerd42 (talk) 16:18, 21 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

Fuck knows, All I see is bickering, Are we actually moving hosts then? I saw an email in my inbox asking me/dan to contact carlb about this (a person who's summoning is a truly herculean task), but honestly I think it's better if we have the hosting details completely ironed out and choreograph the move to avoid disruption. What's happening with this? --Silent PenguinLeave Me Alone 16:51, 28 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

Choreography is the key to everyone dancing in the same way at the same time, so it should definitely fix servers too! :D --Nerd42 (talk) 22:23, 28 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

Can solve world hunger too, apparently. -- Ben ^Blade 22:29, 28 Farbleum 2013 (UTC)

I think everybody thinks everybody else is sorting it all. It's like a meeting where nobody is saying anything and waiting for the others to open their mouths. Are we there yet? -- Hindleyak  Converse • ?blog • Click here! 21:23, 2 Arche 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I got swamped by a pile of stuff and cough medicine and... uh... it sucked, frankly. But yeah, most of the technicalities are largely sorted out already - needs some configuring, fix an extension, get the database one way or another - the how to move it isn't too big of an issue. At this point it's mostly just a case of actually doing it - contact carlb and sort out how to get the database over, repoint the domain to our DNS, don't panic when random people get eaten by birds because that has nothing to do with any of this, and when the actual move happens, just hold off editing for a couple days and then everything should be pretty much back to normal, but hopefully with less errors. -— Athyria 06:36, 4 Arche 2013 (UTC)

I guess it boils down to this: Seppy, could we talk about the domain at some point, and Hindleyite, you still up for contacting carlb? I guess this is ironing? I dunno. Anything else we need to worry about? -— Athyria 06:42, 4 Arche 2013 (UTC)

What about the domain? Just tell me where to point it and when and I will oblige. As long as you don't choose insane o'clock on a week night as the when, time zones and dat. --Silent PenguinLeave Me Alone 09:47, 4 Arche 2013 (UTC)

Aiight, I'll give you a poke when we start the move with an estimated finish and around the latter time would probably be when to actually repoint it. Or some such. I mean, there should be an announcement in general telling everyone what to expect and to please refrain from editing, but added poke should help avoid confusion or something. -— Athyria 01:20, 5 Arche 2013 (UTC)

The Harbinger and his hands

Truth be told, the removal of a website and its relocation onto a balloon isn't a practical idea. However, since this is a site that relies on illogic, it is best to decide with a big old bag of grapes for a little while. Las ondas estan en fuego, pero no quisiera encenderlas. I can't think of a better idea than to creep into his bed at night and snuggle with him closely. Then he might wake up, but I'm not too concerned because he will already have transformed into a sandal by then. Can you imagine a sandal that has arms and legs and a personality of its own? I can imagine if a sandle was conscious, he wouldn't enjoy being stepped on! But then again, we all have our sensations and hesitations. Without them we certainly aren't beings. If I could be, I'd be a clown. Clowns have no arms, so they don't need to shave their armpits. My aunt told me last tuesday that I had too much hair under my arms, so I cut them off. It turned out to bleed a lot, but by the end of the day I was OK. That's just because of the leeches the doctors placed on my wounds to clean them up. Leeches are funny creatures. They are small, but they can be big when engorged with flesh liquids. During the middle ages, leeches were frequently used to attempt to cure illnesses. Interesting enough, leeches can still be handy in medical practices. This one time I was practicing the oboe when a cloud of dust appeared around my head. By the time the dust had cleared, I found myself in a hole with several dead bodies. Two of which were of myself. Hail Ludden.--|Fonchezzz| Quacking| 00:15, 15 Arche 2013 (UTC)

It is an ill wind that blows, that which knows blows, so's the bose. Zo. 17:14, 19 Arche 2013 (UTC)

Sometimes I think we need more towels, but frankly the lemons already ate themselves. Do your words follow the oblong or the escalon side of the steak? -— Athyria 16:59, 23 Arche 2013 (UTC)

i does has towels --Nerd42 (talk) 15:33, 24 Arche 2013 (UTC)

The move?

So I'm guessing there's a consensus here? Ok then. I'll bug somebody on the uncyclomedia.co side and see if/when a move can get started. The thing I would need to do first is contact Carlb and ask him about the domain name and such. I'll let you folks know if/when the move will get started. Sorry it took this long! --24.8.162.37 01:43, 23 Aym 2013 (UTC)

I don't know who you are, but I am momentarily sober enough to put RAHB on my head as a hat and say that dude, you are totally right and we really need to get on that. Yes. -— Athyria 05:03, 24 Aym 2013 (UTC)

I'm bizzeebeever. --24.8.162.37 01:26, 29 Aym 2013 (UTC)

Oh, good, brilliant, yes, nice. Please let's do that. -RAHB 08:02, 10 Yoon 2013 (UTC)

Nothing's been happening?

Except Carlb's servers seem to have gotten better of late. This may be because there have been fewer users participating or it may not. I still think we should move, however, simply because Carlb is so difficult to get ahold of if/when there are server problems and I don't know about the rest of you, but I am envisioning Illogicopedia becoming a much more active site in the future. --Nerd42 (talk) 17:49, 30 Yoon 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, we've been free of 404'ing for a good while. There's still the spambot plague to deal with though.

Aside from the odd spike you get at the start of the year and in the summer, I don't think this wiki is likely to get a great deal more (or less) active than it has been for the last couple of years. It's a general trend across the wikisphere, and as long as we retain the adequate userbase we have now, we'll be fine. -- Ben ^Blade 18:07, 30 Yoon 2013 (UTC)

I really think that what we've got here has great potential to be entertaining to more people. Then again, I was extremely surprised by the success the site had in the beginning which was beyond my wildest expectations at that time. Maybe that made me overly optimistic. --Nerd42 (talk) 20:14, 1 Jumbly 2013 (UTC)

Server problems seem to be back. marbury (talk) 13:14, 23 Jumbly 2013 (UTC)

Moving time!

As Nerd42 pointed out, it's about bloody time we got around to this, so I'm pleased to announce that we're going to start setting up the server (or perhaps figuring out where we left off before) and run a test run grabbing the data this week. Actual move should then take place next week or the week after, once it's set up and we have a good measure of how long it will take to do the real thing and such.

I'll let you know then what to expect before the thing itself, but basically you'll need to not edit for a bit and Seppy'll need to update the illogicopedia.org domain and then everyone should be able to just log in, I suspect. More on that later, though.

Also, please make sure you are using the illogicopedia.org domain - carlb owns illogicopedia.com and has not indicated he is going to change it or remove this copy of the site, though it's possible this is just for lack of time on his part. We'll probably wind up redirecting the old site to the new server for the time being, but it would be best if everyone use the domain that Illogicopedia (Seppy, specifically) owns regardless. -— Athyria 16:01, 7 Jumbly 2013 (UTC)

Yayayayayayayayayay! Sincerely, islandmonkey - go speak 17:36, 7 Jumbly 2013 (UTC)

A new chapter of Illogicopedian history unfolds. Oh, and whoever was using this book last needs to clean off the mysterious, browny-green sticky goo. -- Ben ^Blade 18:18, 7 Jumbly 2013 (UTC)

Good, glad to hear it. I hope it all goes well. --marbury (talk) 08:02, 8 Jumbly 2013 (UTC)

We should probably be using Mediawiki:Sitenotice to keep people updated on this as it happens. --Nerd42 (talk) 22:23, 8 Jumbly 2013 (UTC)

Right. Someone should do that. I'll even try, but I keep getting distracted every few seconds today so I promise nothing. -— Athyria 20:59, 10 Jumbly 2013 (UTC)

Oh, who am I kidding? This is normal. -— Athyria 21:03, 10 Jumbly 2013 (UTC)

Remember when we used to vote on stuff and have certain articles featured on the main page? Yeah, me neither

After the move I would really like for us to get the whole featured editor and featured article thing going again. Groarnge has been on the front page for who knows how long. Aside from making us look lazy, it also makes the site look even deader than it really is. --marbury (talk) 08:42, 11 Jumbly 2013 (UTC)

@marbury I agree! Let's get VFF back on the road! :D

-- NotReallyMyUsername 2013-07-15T03:01

Now that the move is over, remember to vote on articles. It's easy, it only takes a minute, and it's a great way to get your favorite content promoted on the front page. --Mars Cadbury (talk) 10:29, 13 Novelniver 2013 (UTC)

I've started doing odd bits to keep the main page creeping along. A pay raise of 0/43% might incentivize me to do more, but realistically the odds are not in favor. I see you and others have been doing groovy stuff too. Maybe we ought to unionize and push for a pay hike. And more sanitary pedestals for our front doors. And bungee cords. And diminished 7th chords. 13:42, 13 Novelniver 2013 (UTC)

We should probably talk to Mother Athyria about it. Since all the vamps are apparently MIA she seems to be the top woman on the totem pole. And as far as unionizing goes, I’m more in favor of an old fashioned illogi coup, but that’s just me. --Mars Cadbury (talk) 12:29, 14 Novelniver 2013 (UTC)

Okay

I dunno how to come out and say this but basically I've been really depressed lately and haven't been able to do much of anything, so we haven't made as much progress so far with the data move as we'd hoped.

For my part I truly am sorry, but apparently depression isn't something so easily snapped out of as one might expect. I'll try to keep y'all apprised, but in my current condition I can't really promise anything. RAHB should probably be more reliable? -— Athyria 07:58, 21 Jumbly 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry to hear about that. It's ok, really. Life is more important than an encyclopedia of nonsense. I hope I speak for everyone when I say take all the time you need. --marbury (talk) 08:03, 21 Jumbly 2013 (UTC)

About that there server move

Can anybody confirm anything? Are we close? Not close? Is it even going to happen? Has it been postponed indefinitely? Granted, I don’t know who all is overseeing this. I know Athyria and Carlb and the Vamps were working on it and it looked like where were just on the edge of the move, but that was some time ago. I'm not trying to rush anybody or sound impatient, but an update would be helpful. --marbury (talk) 06:31, 2 Serpeniver 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, again, really sorry about that. It's happening now - should be about a week or two; looks like the scripts'll take a 1-3 days to fully get all the content, so that won't be an issue, but we also still need to set up the environment. I'll try to give a better announcement once we can set a specific date, and we'll get all the content after that.

But the script is actually going. IT'S GOING. (We'll rerun when we're actually moving; the 'going' now is just a test run so we can get everything working and don't have another pathetic en.uncyc failure because that was kind of stupid.) -— Athyria 16:34, 1 Octodest 2013 (UTC)